Beware Of Cars With Cloned VINs - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 04/21/2016 at 09:10 • Filed to: None

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One of the latest scams gaining ground sees bad guys stealing cars and then re-selling the cars with “cloned” VINs. I’ve seen a few of these cases and have heard of even more.

What’s a bad guy to do with a stolen car? They’re hard enough to offload, being “hot” and all. More and more, the thief finds a Vehicle Identification Number of a similar car in another state and then places a new VIN tag on the stolen car with the other car’s VIN. A few fake documents later and - voila! - a saleable car.

The FBI says this is on the rise and - as I have noted - I have had clients in my office with this problem.

It can also hurt the person whose VIN was used to make the clone. Reports have popped up of people having trouble selling their car because Carfax and others have gotten confused by the two similar VINs. Example: innocent owner in one state can’t sell his car because Carfax reports multiple accidents on the car - having gotten the info for the clone instead.

So, I explain it all in this week’s podcast. And I also explain why “VIN number” is acceptable in conversation.

The audio:

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And the video:

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This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:19

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You’d think this scam would be tougher these days, but I guess not. I learned about this in the Orginal Gone in 60 Seconds. The good one from the 70s

SteveLehto > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 04/21/2016 at 09:22

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Well, keep in mind it only has to “work” long enough for them to sell the car. That is why you really want to have a good handle on who the seller is (in case you need to chase them down later).

crowmolly > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 04/21/2016 at 09:24

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Seeing as how the DMV is still stupid enough to issue me a title for car model that doesn’t exist I’m not surprised.

Also, your VIN should not be affixed with these:

Steve, correct me if I am wrong but aren’t real rosette VIN rivets illegal to possess in some states? I want to say Michigan and California are two of them.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:24

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You should also be wary of clones with car VINs. It’s like “WDB... the hell, Luis 6B? You’re a hispanic strain! My ass you’re a Mercedes!” This is to say nothing of clones named Vin.

jimz > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:24

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also true for motorcycles; my Dyna has part of the VIN engraved on the engine block (and probably a few other places.) looks like VIN characters 5, 6, 7, and the last 6.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:27

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I’ll admit that I’ve thought of this trick, but not as a way to offload hot cars. Instead I’m thinking that the ultimate DD cheap-car hack might be to make them interchangeable. For example, Craigslist where I live is loaded with sub-$1000 Saturns that are perfectly fine. Buy two similar ones of the sameish color, register and drive one until it needs something that will cost something to keep it on the road, swap plates, scrap the dead one. Obviously outright illegal, but seems like a way to skip registration and taxes and transferring the plate and stuff that doesn’t actually hurt anyone except maybe DMV’s revenue.

newgalactic > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:29

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My Accord has the VIN in at least three places I can think of. Be sure to check other cars for the same practice, and verify the VIN in each location.

SteveLehto > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 04/21/2016 at 09:30

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I think it might also be a Federal offense to tamper with the VIN tag as well . . .

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:31

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There was a guy in west St Louis county that had a black 1987 Mustang GT with a 427 somehow sandwiched between the frame rails.Turns out his girlfriend also had a stock black 1987 5.0.He had the VIN plates loose and could somehow (with tweezers dunno?) switching them for state inspections then switch them back. Anyway...

We have a commercial truck (Class 7 Freightliner) that was not issued a full VIN at the munufacturer. It was sold and titled ‘incomplete’ and the final body manufacturer was supposed to apply for the full VIN. But they didn’t! Wow. Imagine trying to retitle in my state with an incomplete VIN. What a hoot. We called our local PD, they first cop they sent was not schooled in vehicle investigations, he gave up and sent the supervisor. We found the original VIN (somewhere on the vehicle, again not under the glass like you would expect...) and he declared that was the vehicle described on our title we we managed, but it was a chore. He also did NOT!- tell us where that other number is. They like to keep that quiet.

SteveLehto > newgalactic 04/21/2016 at 09:32

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I mention that - but I also tell people to get used cars inspected. They don’t. What are the odds they will do this too?

compu_85 > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:32

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On some cars this would be easier to spot. My Mercedes has a vin sticker on each body panel and the bumpers. A friend’s Tiguan has a vin sticker on both front fenders. Plus there is always a at least a partial vin stamped into the firewall, and the sticker on the driver’s door jam. On VWs at least there’s a sticker in the spare tire well too. The owner’s manual might have the vin listed in the maintenance or warranty booklet.

It only takes a second to look. As you noted - best to protect yourself before you buy a cloned car!

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > crowmolly 04/21/2016 at 09:35

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I recall there was some flap at a major classic car auction over VINS being removed and reattached improperly on restored vehicles

QuadPole > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 04/21/2016 at 09:36

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What about the seller? His name will remain attached to the VIN until you transfer title with the DMV.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > crowmolly 04/21/2016 at 09:37

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Funny story - the data plate on a Series Land Rover is attached with ordinary 1/8" pop rivets. This, combined with the fact that a lot of them are Fronkensteened from piles of spare parts and the chassis (which has the same number) is one of the first things to go, serial numbers have the potential or likelihood of being “who the hell knows”.

my car smells like crayons > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:37

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If the inspection fails to identify a cloned VIN situation, is there any recourse?

SteveLehto > my car smells like crayons 04/21/2016 at 09:39

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Against who? The Seller or the inspector? You can always go after the seller for breach of warranty of title but that requires you to find them and sue them. That is why it is important to know who you are buying from etc.

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:40

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I don’t let “hot water heater” bother me. There is no “hot water” without the heater, so I feel that it can still be interpreted logically without reading too much into the sequential ordering of the words. But the argument against such usage isn’t wrong, either, so *shrug* I don’t press the issue around those who prefer “water heater”.

However, when it comes to “VIN number”, I just can’t find a reasonable way to dance around there being double “number”s. It’s a lot like misspelling a word, and the error seems more egregious in print than it does spoken aloud.

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:41

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This makes me want to crawl underneath my car (even though I’ve had it for years with no legal trouble) and make sure I’m in the clear...

Clown Shoe Pilot > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:42

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I haven’t listened, but I am just going to comment that “VIN Number” is never acceptable in conversation. Whatever you came up with, you’re lying to yourself.

(It doesn’t come across in a comment, but I’m giving you a big “much love, brother” smile right now - don’t take this as me being a dick, because I’m not trying to be)

Also, the explanation was longer than the original comment.

SteveLehto > Urambo Tauro 04/21/2016 at 09:43

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The difference is print versus spoke word. When I am speaking in a podcast (for example) you can’t ask me to clarify what I am saying and VIN is such a short word that if you are not familiar with it, you might miss what I said.

It’s the whole thing about news casters writing at a 4th grade level. It’s not because the audience is stupid - it’s because the audience can’t ask them repeat something that was missed. So they have to get it right the first time.

I always think of Jalopnik and Oppositelock when I am making my podcasts but there are just as many listeners who are not car geeks like us. So it has to be just as clear for THEM as it is for you.

jimz > crowmolly 04/21/2016 at 09:44

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Also, your VIN should not be affixed with these

more importantly, your car should not be assembled with those.

SteveLehto > Clown Shoe Pilot 04/21/2016 at 09:44

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I give you much credit for admitting you did not listen before commenting. That’s an advanced move. KUDOS!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:45

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Probably is. Obviously it’s flat out illegal. The question is, how would they find out and does it affect anyone other than you in the event of resale? Unless there was a reason to suspect such fraud (and being the current owner of the car, title, registration, and vin tag, you’d be the only one to do so), I don’t see anyone ever comparing the two (that being said, I’ve never owned a car where inspections are required). Being that you’re using the registered tag in your name, if the old one was scrapped and the new one will be at the end, it seems like we talking about torrent-downloading chances of being caught and like it’s truly victim free. Again, it’s flat out illegal, which means that it’s morally wrong, shouldn’t be questioned, and people for whom the expense of registering the new car could be an issue since it’s very expensive in some states when you take into account emissions and inspections should absolutely not do it. Just seemed like something that could be technically possible.

crowmolly > jimz 04/21/2016 at 09:45

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YOU’RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME

Pop rivets, plastic filler, and fiberglass are the devil’s bodywork buffet.

jimz > Urambo Tauro 04/21/2016 at 09:46

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IMO a minor bit of redundancy isn’t anything to get bent out of shape over so long as it doesn’t introduce ambiguity. everyone knows what is meant when they hear “VIN number,” “ATM Machine,” “LCD display,” etc.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > QuadPole 04/21/2016 at 09:47

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Old VIN’s gone with the old body-shell. It’s been scrapped after sitting in your garage for months or years.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:50

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Also (real legal question) what about if you need/get a new dashboard? Would pulling the one from the new dash off and using the car-correct VIN plate on it be considered tampering?

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 09:51

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*nods* I think I’d agree with that. When speaking, you don’t have the ability to capitalize the letters in “VIN”. Seeing it fully capitalized in print makes it more obvious that it’s an acronym.

SteveLehto > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 04/21/2016 at 09:57

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I’m not sure about that. I suspect that if it is not done with the intent to defraud it is ok (but then again, Federal laws are rarely drafted well).

SteveLehto > Urambo Tauro 04/21/2016 at 09:58

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Plus, what is the alternative? “V.I. Number”?

jimz > Urambo Tauro 04/21/2016 at 09:59

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well, you could, but saying “Capital V capital I capital N” is far clunkier :p

jimz > Clown Shoe Pilot 04/21/2016 at 10:00

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don’t take this as me being a dick, because I’m not trying to be

Then I can imagine how good you are at it when you are trying.

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 10:07

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I guess you could say it is “very important”. LOL

Delta88 > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 04/21/2016 at 10:08

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Wasn’t that on the show Chasing Classic Cars with Wayne Carini?

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Clown Shoe Pilot 04/21/2016 at 10:14

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I assume them, out of correctness you'd never eat jumbo shrimp?

LeaksOil > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 04/21/2016 at 10:28

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Engine swaps fail state inspections there?!

Where I am(que Virginia haters claiming how anti car Virginia is), they wouldn’t care if it had a rotary, an LS, a Cummins 4BT or a Briggs & Stratton as long as it met the minimum annual safety inspection requirements. (2/32 or more of tire tread, 2/32 of brake friction material, exterior lights function, blinkers function, that kind of stuff).

ImNotVeryCleverEither > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 10:30

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Nice, a 70 six-barrel (six pack) road runner.

SteveLehto > ImNotVeryCleverEither 04/21/2016 at 10:31

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It also had a wing and a nose cone. I don’t think I have a pic of the fender tag . . .

jimz > LeaksOil 04/21/2016 at 10:31

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Engine swaps fail state inspections there?!

if the state inspection includes emissions compliance, then yes, an engine swap can be an automatic fail.

LeaksOil > Clown Shoe Pilot 04/21/2016 at 10:32

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Having worked many years in automotive related jobs, it’s not uncommon for automotive professionals & customers alike to refer to it as “vin number” in conversation. Think or say what you may. From my experience, it’s just common terminology. Not worth correcting every customer, co-worker, etc or getting worked up over, IMHO.

(They have letters in them anyway, so “number" to describe it is a bit misleading!)

Zeniff > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 10:32

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Steve - Another great podcast. As a native Oregonian living in the Midwest, gotta share a pet peeve. It’s Oregon, as in Ore-uh-gun, not Ore-uh-gone. If you travel west and say the latter, the locals will scoff at you. Incidentally, a good friend of mine / attorney from Michigan was visiting Oregon when I lived there and kept making that mistake.

Viking03 > crowmolly 04/21/2016 at 10:33

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They are illegal to have in Texas as well.

ImNotVeryCleverEither > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 10:34

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Most excellent but honestly I’d rather have the road runner with an air grabber.

LeaksOil > my car smells like crayons 04/21/2016 at 10:35

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Interesting question about the inspector failing to notice. Depends on what is requested to be inspected, I suppose.

as far as I know our state inspections don’t legally require the inspector to check for vin fraud/cloning. They just use the registration or dash plate to copy it down on their paperwork, and go on about their business. So I doubt there would be any recourse against an inspector just doing his/her job. At least in Virginia.

(Of course I’m not a lawyer, like Steve Lehto is).

GLiddy > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 10:37

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A few years ago, I was looking for an E30 BMW project and came across one sitting in front of a gas station. The dashboard VIN plate was missing. I could only imagine the trouble this may cause, so my interest in the car dropped off immediately. Still, I’m curious. If the seller had been able to demonstrate good title, ie. paperwork and alternate VIN location verification, what do you if you end up with a car like this? (In the example you gave, the insurance company got the truck back but it now has a bad VIN plate...unless its scrapped, someone is going to end up owning it). Is telling the cop/mechanic/inspection station who inquires about it, “Its a theft recovery” or “The plate was gone when I got it” going to fly?

Viking03 > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 10:37

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This has always been a concern of mine on classic cars. I have a 69' Charger and started restoring it several years ago. I had the dashboard removed and was staring at that one little tag on it thinking that is the only way I can prove this car is mine. I am still paranoid that after all the work and money I put into the car that one day a state trooper is going to show up and say that this is a stolen car and take her away from me.

Also, love the book! Thanks.

LeaksOil > jimz 04/21/2016 at 10:39

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Even if the engine emits less than the factory engine? Nuts.

What if it’s a factory option engine swapped in? Like swapping a GSR engine into what was originally a nontec Integra? Based on what you said, I assume still fails? That sucks!

No emissions testing here. I associate state inspection/inspection with safety checks , not emissions. thanks for clarifying.

Sounds like a major pain in the butt. Having owned and driven many swapped cars ,…

move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 10:43

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Thinking of Jalopnik and Oppo users? Then you should probably speak slower and use shorter words. #burn

SteveLehto > Zeniff 04/21/2016 at 10:43

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Midwest accent. There are a bunch of those - the town I live in is subject to two pronunciations. 1) What the natives call it and 2) The correct one. I go with the latter.

But I admit I am wrong with OreGONE. I often over enunciate on my podcasts (“email me DIE-rectly”) for emphasis as well. I do them in one take and if I stopped to fix every mistake I made, I’d still be editing episode 1.

Thanks for the note!

SteveLehto > ImNotVeryCleverEither 04/21/2016 at 10:44

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I love the 70s GTX & RR with the Air Grabber. But you gotta love the winged cars.

jimz > LeaksOil 04/21/2016 at 10:45

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Even if the engine emits less than the factory engine? Nuts.

can you prove that? What’s to stop you from pulling a Volkswagen? “Hey, sure, Mr. Emissions Test man, this here engine is even cleaner than the one it was built with. Thanks for the ‘pass,’ dude. Now let me flash it with the tune I really use.”

What if it’s a factory option engine swapped in? Like swapping a GSR engine into what was originally a nontec Integra? Based on what you said, I assume still fails? That sucks!

Yep. if that engine/transmission/model combination was never offered from the factory, it’s non-certified. It might suck, but since they can’t just strap a portable gas analyzer on your car you are assumed to be non-compliant. And thanks to VW, it’s probably going to get worse for you and not better.

SteveLehto > GLiddy 04/21/2016 at 10:45

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I’m not sure how you resolve it. I’ve never looked into it but there must be a way.

ImNotVeryCleverEither > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 10:46

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I dunno, I never was that interested in being noticed. As if you could go unnoticedin a 440 powered mopar, but still.

jimz > LeaksOil 04/21/2016 at 10:46

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how about “VIN Sequence?” same number of syllables.

Have Jeep, will travel. > GLiddy 04/21/2016 at 10:51

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Vin plates on that car are rarely reattached after a dash swap for a cracked dash. I always look for the one stamped into the sheetmetal as that one is almost impossible for an average person to recreate.

Hans_Moleman > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 10:56

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On my Toyota, the VIN is printed on every door, fender, and under the hood, as well as under the windshield, on the driver’s door jamb, and on the frame. Because thieves are often lazy they are likely to miss one or more of those locations when they print new cloned VIN labels. One way to check a potential purchase for a possible cloned VIN is to make sure that all of the numbers match.

LeaksOil > jimz 04/21/2016 at 10:57

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Cheating & swapped- right but you can cheat stock looking stuff too. Inspector doesn’t know if you swapped ECUs for a couple weeks before came in, for example (does he?) . I see your point, just seems silly. If I swapped in an LS series engine in place of an old TBI GM v8 in something like a ‘93 Camaro* and put modern high flow cats on, I’d be way more efficient and emit less. But if they allowed that, we all know enthusiasts would abuse the hell out of it :(. (*just the first thing I thought of ) Easier to cheat modified systems.

I’ve always felt emissions & smog checks were coming sooner or later because increasing “green” initiatives , efforts & focus.

Just looked it up, apparently in certain parts of Virginia they do “smog checks”, but other areas it’s not required. From what I gathered, it’s based on where your car is registered. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong).

SteveLehto > Hans_Moleman 04/21/2016 at 10:59

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And this varies wildly from car to car. The new cars have more VIN markings it seems. But you’re right: Check as many as you can find.

RazoE > Hans_Moleman 04/21/2016 at 11:05

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This, but also could be confusing if you use genuine parts off other cars to fix a fender bender. My Supra had the VIN etched into the glass as well because 90's.

RazoE > Zeniff 04/21/2016 at 11:07

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I say “Or-eh-gin” not “gin” like the drink, but “gin” like in “begin.” Born and raised in So Cal.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > LeaksOil 04/21/2016 at 11:27

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Not ‘just because’ in Missouri, but a carbureted 427 with zero emissions equipment on a 3-4 year old car would certainly fail you.

josephbloseph > Zeniff 04/21/2016 at 11:39

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I’m going to start pronouncing it like oregano with the -o dropped from the end. It won’t catch on, because I don’t have viewers/listeners as I don’t have a show.

MUZZ > Urambo Tauro 04/21/2016 at 11:42

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You must cringe when they say a player has x amount of RBI’s ...

Tina Belcher > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 11:57

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IIRC, you can order a replacement VIN plate from the OEMs. Parts catalogs have numbers and the special rivets for them, but you have to be a dealer and provide a VIN (think of accident repairs). A parts guy or collision shop person would know.

Tina Belcher > compu_85 04/21/2016 at 11:58

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If your car’s been repaired with a junkyard door or fender, VINs won’t match.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 12:01

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ITS ALL ANECDOTAL STEVE!

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 12:02

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VIN number, ATM machine, PIN number and hot water heater all bug me. That being said it is less annoying in a recording playback than in face to face conversation.

Shiftright > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 12:09

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I’ve always thought it wasn’t a good idea to have your car’s VIN exposed for the world to see through your windshield so I have mine covered.

Zeniff > RazoE 04/21/2016 at 12:18

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Close enough to pass muster. Most Oregonians probably say something between gin-and-gun.

General Mayhem > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 12:30

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VIN number is never accptable. Never. Nor is ATM machine, RPMs, MPGs, etc. Ever.

Hans_Moleman > RazoE 04/21/2016 at 12:30

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Yeah, if your car has been in a collision the labels might have been removed or painted over

SteveLehto > General Mayhem 04/21/2016 at 12:33

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But, oddly, “multivalve engine” is.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Which is also a thing.

graham > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 12:35

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When using an acronym in print, the proper form is spell out the individual words FIRST, with the acronym in parenthesis. So why can’t you do that when speaking as well? “The Vehicle Indentificaion Number, or VIN, is used to uniquely identify every vehicle produced.”....or something along those lines?

General Mayhem > crowmolly 04/21/2016 at 12:36

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Illegal in Ohio, too. Knew a guy many years ago that had a bucket full of them, he had a friend that worked at the Ford Lorain Assembly plant. No clue why he swiped so many of them...

GreenN_Gold > Urambo Tauro 04/21/2016 at 12:38

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We’re all idiots for calling it a VIN. It should really be a VILAN . Vehicle Identification Letters and Numbers. /head asplode

Jokes aside, I’m fine with VIN number. Think of it in this context:

You: “Which number did you want me to write down?”

Me: “The VIN number.”

Now, I could still use simply VIN in that sentence, but it makes a little more sense in that context. Having worked at a car dealership, you learn to accept both, because otherwise you would have an aneurysm.

GreenN_Gold > jimz 04/21/2016 at 12:39

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No

General Mayhem > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 12:42

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“VIN number” gives me a massive headache as I hear it on a daily basis in my line of work. Please, don’t use it. If not for me, then do it for the children. Think of the children!

General Mayhem > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 12:42

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“Serial number” works...

General Mayhem > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 12:43

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I don’t like “multivalve engine” either. I guess I just have a strong aversion to redundancies.

Auto Guy > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 12:54

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Pet peeve, regional pronunciation category: most airline pilots seem unable to say “Detroit” correctly... I am weary of hearing them say“DEE-troit” — you and I know the correct pronunciation is De-TROIT. I do, however, grant a special exemption for Canadian hockey broadcasters — they are absolutely allowed to say de-TROY-it. :-)

jimz > General Mayhem 04/21/2016 at 12:58

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but it’s not just a serial number. the only “serial” part of it is the last six characters, and they don’t necessarily represent the sequence the car was built in. VINs are issued sequentially, but that doesn’t require they be built in that order.

jimz > Auto Guy 04/21/2016 at 12:59

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all those years of listening to Bob Cole... also he’d call Boston “The Broons.”

jimz > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 13:06

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I don’t know if you’ve covered this in the past, or if you mentioned it this morning and I was too busy screaming at traffic on Harper Ave, but it’s worth pointing out the root of the word “warranty” is warrant. just like the term “warranty of title” means “the seller warrants that he/she owns the property for sale and is authorized to sell it” (which you explained today and previously) in automotive we use documents called “Part Submission Warrants (PSW.)” This is where the supplier “warrants that the component being supplied conforms to the agreed upon specifications” and is pretty much the last step before they can ship parts to the assembly plant(s.)

SteveLehto > graham 04/21/2016 at 13:08

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Because I am not speaking formally. Nor is the entire audience gearheads. Have to make sure it is clear for everyone.

jimz > General Mayhem 04/21/2016 at 13:09

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.

SteveLehto > General Mayhem 04/21/2016 at 13:09

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That one is not redundant. It is merely stupid.

sgtyukon > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 13:11

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Pronunciation of names which are spelled the same are all over the place, all over the place. All-bany NY and Al-bany GA, for example. Monticello is pronounced differently if you’re talking about Thomas Jefferson’s home or the place in NY. The pronunciation of Commack NY has changed in the last 50-60 years. Back in the day, people who lived there called it Co-mack. Now, everyone says Cah-mack

SteveLehto > Auto Guy 04/21/2016 at 13:12

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Did you ever hear the voice over guy from WJLB back in the day (during the tenure of the Electrifying Mojo)? He would say W-J-L-B — De-Troy-It as well. But in a voice that was lower the James Earl Jones. Made it sound very right.

SteveLehto > sgtyukon 04/21/2016 at 13:13

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The language evolves.

TMC_Sherpa > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 13:15

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I dunno man, wing cars and V codes are all kinds of awesome but my heart was stolen by a ‘71 Runner in K6 Autumn Bronze with a white top.

Someday I will have one. And a garage. And time. And money. I mean it only took my uncle thirty-ish years before he could start working on his ‘Cuda. How hard could it be?

Napom Killz > General Mayhem 04/21/2016 at 13:53

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Hot water heater.

graham > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 14:17

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If by “clear” you mean using it incorrectly and therefore helping to compounded the existing usage problem, then carry on!

SteveLehto > graham 04/21/2016 at 14:21

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“Incorrectly”? What are you, the grammar police?

REO Jackwagon > General Mayhem 04/21/2016 at 14:29

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*hyperbole detected

graham > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 14:30

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“vehicle identification number number” sure sounds incorrect to me. Not trying to be pedantic, but making excuses about using commonly confused acronyms incorrectly just seems like it only helps to perpetuate the problem. Why not take two seconds and explain to your non-gearhead listeners what the acronym means and so they understand why “VIN number” is incorrect?

REO Jackwagon > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 14:33

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Cloned VINs does explain how they made the Fast and Furious movies so quickly

SteveLehto > graham 04/21/2016 at 14:33

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“VIN” is not a word either. It should be “V. I. N.”

REO Jackwagon > Zeniff 04/21/2016 at 14:38

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As long as the pronounciation isn’t “South Washington State”

compu_85 > Tina Belcher 04/21/2016 at 14:44

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Sure. But that would be a warning sign to look at the hard stamped vins on the body.

compu_85 > SteveLehto 04/21/2016 at 14:48

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I’ve heard of people getting very worried about this, since removing the vin and placing it on a new dash would be tampering. Same thing with fixing an odometer which has stopped counting.

I also recall that many pickup trucks have the driver’s door vin sticker on the door itself, not on the door frame. Seems stupid to me, a door would be something often swapped to fix accident damage.